As much as I enjoy doing our live reactions to the Rock Hall ballot, it’s always a tricky thing. You’re trying to process a bunch of information at once while also dealing with personal disappointments over artists who are not on the ballot. You’re trying to phrase things in a way that will mostly not offend a multitude of people who may listen to you. If you’re a woman, you’re struggling with the knowledge that there’s a group of men who just simply can’t or won’t be able to understand where you are coming from and that your words are a bit like spitting into the wind, but it is what it is.
I feel like I came across cold and flat in my reaction to the 2023 ballot, and it took me some time to work out the reasons why. People at the Rock Hall have assured me that they want me to keep calling them out when I feel some type of way about something. Hopefully that offer still stands, and I’ll try to keep my thoughts productive. But now that I’ve had time to think, I finally am able to pinpoint some of the things that are bothering me and making me question how long do I continue actively following the Rock Hall, or if it will fall into the same category as the Grammys where I go “oh neat, that’s happening” and then forget about it an hour later. I am sadly and quickly coming to that latter point.
The nominees this year aren’t bad per se, in fact many of them are people I really like. I’m happy for the nominees, and happy for the people who are excited about them. When I’m bothered, it’s rarely about the specific nominees, it usually ends up being about a convoluted bigger picture issue, or something that I see becoming an issue down the road that may be difficult to course correct if they ignore it. There’s a little bit of both going on here for me.
Before I set off on a journey of grievances, I want to start by saying that I do believe the people at the Rock Hall mean no ill will. I’ve met many of them, and they are all genuinely caring, friendly, hilarious, intelligent, warm and engaging. I have enjoyed every single interaction I’ve had with them. I believe that they love what they do, that they love music and they are genuinely trying to do their best and do want to fix some of the systemic problems there. I know that it’s a difficult bordering on impossible task to strive for the type of balance that serves everyone.
But sometimes fixing problems means having tough conversations and hearing perspectives that might sting or feel shocking to hear. And I hope if anyone there happens to read this (hey I can dream right) that they understand this comes from a place of desperately needing them to hear a voice and perspective that they clearly aren’t hearing.
We’re So Inclusive…Say The Men
When we were listening back to Alan Light, Mark Goodman and Joel Peresman, I was amused (and by amused I mean I want to slam my head in a door repeatedly) to listen to a group of men patting themselves on the back at how inclusive and diverse the ballot they came up with is. You know, at this institution that has nearly all male leadership, a mostly male Nom Com, mostly male category committees and more than likely mostly male voters. Great job boys, you did it!
I don’t mean to be sassy or unkind to the very lovely Alan Light and Mark Goodman, both genuinely nice guys, but also like…come on man. I had full body cringe at those absolutely oblivious statements, and also a fair amount of anger. Even though I know there was no malice behind their statements, there is truly nothing more annoying than seeing a group of men make decisions for other groups of people, brag about their choices, and then express doe-eyed wonder that anyone is unhappy.
We don’t talk politics much on the podcast because we want it to be a refuge for people who just want to be able to take a break from having politics shoved down their throat every waking second, but I will say this. I live in a world where men are making decisions about my healthcare, the language used to describe me, and a multitude of other things I won’t discuss lest I get canceled, but are making women’s lives pretty fucking hard. And it pisses me off that even in this frivolous hobby I have a group of guys at the Rock Hall telling me what women are important, what women represent me and what I should be happy about. To quote Michael Scott, “Nope, don’t like that.”
I will fully believe the Rock Hall’s words about diversity when they proudly put women and people of color in the positions that matter. Leadership positions. Nominating positions. Voting positions. Diversity isn’t a group of men deciding which women and people of color matter. It’s the type of dynamic that leads to Jim Stewart getting inducted and Estelle Axton being snubbed, and after 21 years they STILL won’t fix it because they’re so oblivious and can’t relate that it hurts when you work your ass off building something great, but are ignored just because you’re a woman. Because really, what other reason would the woman who funded and co-built Stax be ignored?
What would a ballot look like if women like Lita Ford, Holly Knight, Sarah Rodman, Suzy Exposito and Dr. Regina Bradley were allowed a voice and added to the Nom Com? Hard to know unless they make the decision to let us make decisions.
If you really, really want to change things and be the institution you say you are, you have to allow women and people of color to make their OWN decisions about the artists that matter TO THEM. I know that means at least some of the men there at the Hall being willing to relinquish their power, and that’s the rub with anything and men since the dawn of time ain’t it?
Why Are Black Women Being Ignored?
It’s truly something coming out on the first day of Black History Month with a ballot that only has one black woman on it. And yes, Missy Elliot is incredible, a personal favorite and wildly deserving. But was there really not a single other black woman that you could also nominate who is deserving?
The Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Odetta, Memphis Minnie, Linda Martell, Big Mama Thornton, Dionne Warwick, Patti Labelle/LaBelle, Diana Ross, The Pointer Sisters, Grace Jones, Millie Jackson, Anita Baker, Sade, Tracy Chapman, Queen Latifah, Salt N Pepa, MC Lyte, Mary J. Blige, MC Sha Rock, Chaka Khan, Faith Evans, X-Ray Spex, TLC, Lil’ Kim, Aaliyah, Erykah Badu, Destiny’s Child, Lauryn Hill? None of them?
Really. None of them?
I am weary of the corporate twaddle the Rock Hall spouts when pressed about blatant nomination issues like this, because it’s always “well golly gee, they just haven’t been nominated yet, hopefully someday their time will come.” Nope, every person who knows these stats and still walks in that nomination room and doesn’t do anything to rectify the problem is actively making a CHOICE to not rectify it.
I know the Rock Hall always says there is nothing sinister going on when we point out how certain things look, but in this discussion of power and representation, I can tell you right now that it looks incredibly purposeful that living black women are not getting nominated and inducted, which would also give them voting power. If it’s not sinister and not on purpose, then why not take steps to fix it instead of wishing upon a star and really, really hoping the Nom Com will start correcting it?
The last living black woman inducted was Tina Turner in 2021. Before that it was Janet Jackson in 2019, Claudette Rogers Robinson in 2012, Darlene Love in 2011 and the Ronettes in 2007. Only Nedra Talley from the Ronettes is still alive. So in the last fifteen years worth of classes, right now there are only five living black female inductees who have a vote on who should go in the Rock Hall, and three of them are in their 80’s if you get my drift. Disgraceful, and the statistics are going to get sadder and more dire really fast if this isn’t acknowledged and addressed.
I'm fairly confident Missy will be inducted this year, but if she isn't, then what?
White Guys With Guitars
I’m going to say the thing I’m not supposed to say, and it’s an opinion that may or may not surprise people given my other points. I think they are making a huge mistake by heavily pushing the holier than thou messaging that “it’s not just about white guys with guitars you guys”.
(Are white women with guitars persona non grata too? Since you don’t nominate us either I assume we are, but just thought I’d check. Sorry Suzi Quatro, guess you’re out!)
I don’t think it’s helpful language when you are trying to unify people or explain some of the decisions you’re making. I do feel for the Rock Hall because they have to deal with hateful social media comments from complete boobs all day long. I understand wanting to try to come up with messaging that heads these comments off at the pass. But a person can’t help if they’re a white man, and if that white man happens to be influential and important, he should be inducted and that’s really all there is to it. All you’re doing is making people feel defensive, alienated and putting them on their back foot by talking like that. I can’t speak for everyone, but that’s not what I want. I don’t want anyone to feel alienated. That’s the whole fucking point of inclusivity, none of us should feel alienated. There is a way to rectify the lack of women and people of color in the Hall without excluding other groups of people or erasing history. There’s room for all of us.
Also, it’s implying that only white men care about white guys with guitars, and that’s just simply not true. You’re honestly pissing me and a lot of women off who love metal and hard rock. I see people of all races at rock shows. Stop being weird, let everyone enjoy each other’s music without boxing us in on who should like what. My heart was warmed yesterday when a guy with a thick as molasses Southern drawl called in to Alan Light and gushed about how much he loved Missy Elliot and hoped she was in the final class. But that’s kind of my point. Just as Missy Elliot made a clearly white Southern gentleman happy, white guys with guitars make more than white guys happy. Do you think you’re doing us a favor by snubbing them?
There’s also a hilarious irony that a bunch of white men are the ones pushing this message. And it’s not like I have a vendetta against those men, it just comes across as incredibly disingenuous, phony and weird to say that white guys with guitars are passe, but having an almost entirely white, male system there at the Hall calling the shots for everybody, including women and people of color, is fine.
There is absolutely nothing shameful or wrong about wanting bands like Styx, Motley Crue, Thin Lizzy, Motorhead, Scorpions, Ronnie James Dio, Foreigner or Jethro Tull in. It doesn’t make you a rockist or a backwards, bad person if you want those bands in. They are all artists who SHOULD be in.
Us Weirdos Are Never Getting Off The Island of Misfit Toys
After Eric and I stopped recording our reaction, I turned to him and jokingly quoted Charlie In The Box from the Rudolph claymation special.
“I guess I’ll just go to sleep and dream of next year.”
But it’s true, it really does feel like Santa is never going to come back to find homes for the misfit toys. I really did feel kind of flat and deflated after Eric read the ballot, and some of those feelings I can attribute to everything I wrote above. I can also attribute some of them to the fact that of course I’m disappointed that some of my true faves and pet projects weren’t on the list. I’m human after all, and anyone who says they don’t feel disappointment when they don’t see a favorite of theirs on the list is a liar, full stop.
Anyway, this feeling of flatness towards the ballot is also about who I am as a person. Some may find that irrelevant, but I don’t think it completely is. When we see the roiling online over the Rock Hall, it's because people’s emotions are tied so deeply to the music they love. What is music if it isn’t about feelings? Joy, heartbreak, rage, hope and love? The very best music makes you feel like you’ve found a tribe, and for some of us that means everything. It helps you find an identity, comfort and a listening ear. It makes you feel less alone. When I look at the ballot, I kind of feel alone.
I was a quiet, lonely, anxious kid who always felt absolutely small and invisible. Music made me feel seen. Music gave me courage. Music helped me connect with weird, shy, quiet, anxious people just like me. Music made me aspire to be bolder and more outspoken. If we’re getting down to psychology brass tacks, I suppose I battle so hard for underdogs and weirdos on the podcast because when I was young, I desperately wanted to be visible, for someone to have seen my value and to have battled for me. Is that intense and too deep for a music awards show? Probably. Are those feelings ever going to go away? No.
I won’t lie, there is something that really personally stings about the Rock Hall moving towards flashy, perfectly packaged, popular and mainstream acts while underdogs and true weirdos are pushed to the side. While I enjoy pretty much every artist and genre, there are some artists who are really and truly mine, and they’re never nominated. It sucks to feel like an influential, groundbreaking artist isn’t worth nominating if they are older, lesser known, didn’t sell enough albums, aren’t perfectly marketable, won’t make for a perfect little HBO broadcast or won’t sell enough tickets for your fundraising. It sucks that the Rock Hall's vision suddenly seems to be "if you weren't mainstream top 40, then you don't count". It really does give you that feeling that hurting, quiet people or freaky people who refuse to conform aren’t worth seeing. Aren’t worth taking the time to get to know. Aren’t worth acknowledging even if they created something beautiful and special.
What would make me feel seen? With women specifically, there’s a certain type of woman I’m looking for I suppose. Women who are hated or feared, weird women who don’t worry about twisting themselves in knots to be fuckable for men, women who drive the world insane because they say what’s on their mind and won’t conform to the “be kind” bullshit people use to try to silence women. Sinead O’Connor, Sonic Youth (ie Kim Gordon), Hole (ie Courtney Love), PJ Harvey, Garbage, L7, Alanis, Wendy O. Williams, Bikini Kill, Grace Jones, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Millie Jackson, Girlschool, The Runaways, MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, Lil’ Kim.
And really, that need goes for artists of either sex. I fully admit that I have a soft spot for flawed, complicated, sometimes offensive people who are the human equivalent of the bad dog from Marley & Me. I love people who drive everyone crazy because they don’t do what the world wants them to do. I love artists like Phish who have an amazing sense of humor and don’t give a fuck if you think they’re dorky and uncool. I love human volcanoes who are pretty to look at, but also might burn a city to the ground if they explode. I have a soft spot for Insane Clown Posse even if I don’t listen to their music, because no matter how much people hate them and look down on their fans, they aren’t going to change what they do or conform to the house broken pet you want them to be. The world is boring as hell without people like them or people like Motley Crue, Rick James, Skid Row, Ice-T, Courtney Love, Nick Cave, The Cramps, Dead Kennedys and Black Flag.
Rock and roll is boring as hell without those people. Is it even rock and roll without them?
I do have my limits on the bad behavior I tolerate of course. For instance I wouldn’t like it if there was an award named after a man who has multiple accusations of violent sexual assault. That would be something that wouldn’t fit in with my vision of inclusivity and making women feel welcome, but that’s surely something the Rock Hall wouldn’t do, and if they did they’d certainly rectify it. Right?
I don't know, at the end of the day maybe that feeling of emptiness and "eh" when I look at the ballot is just my personal shit that I need to deal with and isn’t the Rock Hall’s problem. Maybe as a weirdo introvert, a woman who won’t shut up and loves flawed people, I should just be used to being marooned on the Island of Misfit Toys. But damn, sometimes misfits do want a home, and I wish the Rock Hall could be mine.
Because a misfit toy will never truly be happy until someone wants to play with them.
